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 Nudity and Innocence?

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RLinksoul
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PostSubject: Nudity and Innocence?   Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:35 pm

One of the many things different about Japanese media over American, is that nudity with children is not inherently viewed as sexual, but often a representation of the character's innocence. In the days of old anime like Dragonball it was not uncommon to see little boys in full frontal nudity, parts shown and all.

One noteworthy example would be the final episode of the Sailor Moon anime, where the protagonist spends much of, if not the entire episode in the nude, with only a pair of angel wings on her back.

As far as Magical Girl shows go, the biggest example has to be Esper Mami. The title character's father was a painter, and Mami was often the subject of paintings, surprisingly detailed paintings. And unlike the above example, she didn't have the anatomy of a barbie doll. It's kinda sad that if you google "Esper Mami" you'll pretty much see nothing but screencaps of this. 

Of course now adays you can't get away with showing stuff like that on even Japanese TV, what with the emphasis on fanservice in modern anime. 

The seinen targeting otaku bait known as Lyrical Nanoha for example seems more intent on sexualizing the nudity in Nanoha's transformation, the removal of her clothing stopping at her underwear for several seconds and spending more time focusing on her naked loli-body than actually putting her costume on her.
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PostSubject: Re: Nudity and Innocence?   Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:31 pm

and yet here in America little girls are expose to teenage girls barely wearing anything in the media.
-_-





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PostSubject: Re: Nudity and Innocence?   Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:46 pm

it's really is sad, but i personally and this maybe my western raising but i dont see the connection to being nude and being innocent. I see being nude as being vulnerable. It shows to me that they are still human under that magical girl costume. I dont like the over sexualization of any female character in any show it's bad for the image of women any and everywhere.



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PostSubject: Re: Nudity and Innocence?   Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:01 pm

For an artistic point of view nudity is view as beauty.  And yes nudity can mean vulnerability. There a lot books with that theme. I read book called Naked. I forget what it was about, but I remember the character did felt weak. 

I guess it all comes down to the culture. To me as long as they dont sexualize the character there is nothing wrong with showing nudity in a show. Heck when the girls transform and when angel Usgai is shown you only see the outline of the bodies. There is no detail on the inner part of the body. Plus they dont give the girls overly size big boobs. God I hate those anime. Those '"boobs" they give those characters are so unrealstic.





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PostSubject: Re: Nudity and Innocence?   Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:04 pm

Anime physics are something else. High school of the dead anyone? those things defied gravity and all known natural laws. I agree with you Yami er Ami, all points above stated i agree.



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PostSubject: Re: Nudity and Innocence?   Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:58 pm

The only time I get frustrated with nudity is when it is clearly just there for male entertainment.  Even sometimes sexual stuff doesn't bother me in magical girl of it is still female focused, such as scenes of Usagi and Mamoru in the sailor moon manga
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PostSubject: Re: Nudity and Innocence?   Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:38 am

I think with Esper Mami, there's a little bit of titillation going on, but only if you're like 10 and under and the human body of the opposite sex is still a mystery to you. I mean it did run in a young boys manga magazine, and its manga authors are no stranger to panty shots in their other famous works. Thankfully Esper Mami does it in a tasteful enough way to entice curious young readers but still not trying to excite anyone else over a certain age bracket.    

I remember reading this about Superhero comic artists and anatomy when I started art school - and honestly it explains so much about that aesthetic of skintight muscley bound characters. Those artists went to school and had to figure draw and learn everything about anatomy, nude and clothed (whether or not they utilize it well is a different argument, but) so much that it becomes second nature to them - so why wouldn't they use their anatomy skills in their daily living art too?

The same could probably be said for Japanese artists, male or female, who choose to put in nude/near nude figures in their work. Simply because they can and know how to do it right! (In my CLAMP artbooks there's several quotes from the artist Mokona of how proud she is that she can draw breasts XD which explains why every grown woman character of hers is endowed to some degree honestly)


That said, I really don't mind fanservice when it's done tastefully or in a way that's plausible (oh your adult characters are spending an episode at the beach? = good time for swimsuit pan-shots). Its a thin line and it really depends on the situation, but I know it when I see it.
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PostSubject: Re: Nudity and Innocence?   Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:54 pm

From what I've heard nudity and even stuff like panty shots of little girls can show innocence. I don't really understand the concept competely myself (In some ways I find it weird) but I believe it has something to do with the fact that kids don't typically know much about lewd things. While nudity is commonly viewed as being sexual there's nothing sexual going through the character's mind and the people who put it in there didn't intend for it to titilate the viewer so it's innocent in that sense.

That being said, something like that is more often than not used for less than 'innocent' purposes.


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PostSubject: Re: Nudity and Innocence?   Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:46 pm

I don't buy panty shots as symbolic for innocence. Even if the character doesn't get it, the adult animators know exactly what connotation those shots typically have. Focusing on peeking up a child's skirt is creepy.
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PostSubject: Re: Nudity and Innocence?   Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:06 pm

From what I remember of Kki's Delivery Service, they didn't really make it a point to pan under her dress blatantly, but rather her fluffy bloomers would show when she was flying and her dress was ruffling around.

One of the most uncomfortable things about Mary Bell was that even though it seems to be a downright adorable kids show, it had an awkward tendency to blatantly display the panties of one particular character, this snobby little girl named Vivian, who is pretty much the smallest character and not 500,000 years old like the main character.

I can't even conceive why they would want to show the underwear of such a young character on what looks like an innocent kids show. The concept of "Parent Service" doesn't apply here.
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PostSubject: Re: Nudity and Innocence?   Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:43 am

I think things like that is just the animator being bored and drawing panties help him get through the work day - especially in anime where the production schedules are hell and with little pay. And censors in Japan being loose enough to not caring XD (of course this i think applies to mostly 80s and 90s shows)
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PostSubject: Re: Nudity and Innocence?   Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:57 pm

Yeah in Kiki you do see her undies, but there's an actual reason for that. She's wearing a dress while riding a flying broom. At least they look like shorts/granny undies. I really don't count that as fanserivce.





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PostSubject: Re: Nudity and Innocence?   Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:55 am

Yeah, that's the sort of thing I was referring to. Kiki's underwear is very tame and the methods they use to animate the flying scenes are actually something the movie should be commended for. Plus Miyazaki is the last guy I'd accuse of being a perv.

Nanoha's panty shots on the other hand? Creepy fanservice through and through. Literally no purpose other than the obvious. Not that I'd expect much more from a magical girl series aimed at older guys with a character from an eroge as its protagonist.


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PostSubject: Re: Nudity and Innocence?   Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:27 am

I think for them, nakedness with children is something akin to being a more natural state. Kids take off their clothes and run around in the nude all the time. I also don't think that seeing underclothes as long as there is a reason ie they did a flip in the air in a skirt (magical girl outfits) or the wind blows up etc. It's not a big deal and I think maybe Japan is on to something with treating it as such.
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