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 Myths About Madoka Magica

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CherryChan
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PostSubject: Myths About Madoka Magica   Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:24 am

I know i'm probably paving the way for a huge discussion but you know what? I don't care.

Madoka was made for a male audience so therefore it's bad!!!!

Ok, neither Aniplex or anyone working at SHAFT/Magica Quartet has said this. Stop passing around these dumb fandom rumors.

Even if it was made for a male audience, so what? Not all male MG fans are gross otaku's who enjoy watching little girl torture porn. In fact, hardly any of them are. It is very tiring to see male magical girl fans stereotyped as either gay or "YOU FAP TO MOE" people.

Madoka punishes girls for having feelings uwu

I'm sorry, what? 
This argument is pathetic and untrue not only because it treats Madoka as if it’s purely a sadistic show, but it treats girls as if they need 100% happy fluffy shows or light hearted super hero shows to feel empowered, and that girls don’t have any harsh struggles to find a way to relate to shows like Madoka. Also newsflash - maybe older girls can be empowered by Madoka, because it obviously wasn’t made for children. Maybe older girls/women need something to relate too as well, and not keep it to just a genre for young girls.
Come on, Madoka Magica is nothing compared to shows like Elfen Lied and Attack on Titan. If you want sadistic anime, go watch those.

The people who say this obviously dropped the show at episode 10, because if they had stuck around to see episode 12, they would have seen Madoka sacrifice herself to save all magical girls, past, present and future. 

if someone ever tells me It’s a mistake to hope, well then, I’ll just keep telling them they’re wrong.” - Madoka Kaname

So i'm sorry if Madoka became God instead of a superhero, but that's just how the anime was made.

Since it is a deconstruction, it doesn't deserve to be called a Magical Girl show

Sorry but Puella Magi Madoka Magica is a magical girl show.

In order for something to be widely accepted as a magical girl show, it must have:

.Transformation items and sequences
.An animal mascot
.Girls fighting the forces of evil
."Monsters of the Week"

Madoka checks all these boxes, so therefore it is a Magical Girl show.

Madoka is a whiny useless crybaby

For gods sake, i've seen this one recycled countless times by Anti Madoka people. And they're always wrong. Just because Madoka didn't become a Magi until the second to last episode, doesn't mean she's useless. She becomes a goddess for cheesecakes sake! 
Also, grieving over your friends doesn't make you a crybaby. The only time we saw Madoka cry in the series is when:
.Mami dies (and the aftermath)
.Sayaka's soul gem is thrown off the bridge
.Her conversation with Sayaka at the bus stop
.Discovering that Sayaka turned into a witch
.Battle with Oktavia von Seckendorff
.Mami kills Kyoko (timeline 3)
.Kyubey's huge entropy speech

Considering all of these situations, she has good reason to be upset.

PMMM brought perverts into the MG fandom


This one makes me laugh. Have they ever see Cutey Honey? Nevermind that the Sailor Senshi all wear incredibly short skirts. There have always been perverts among us, it's nothing new.

Sorry if this was more of a vent thread then anything else but i didn't feel i could post it in the Magical Girl Vent thread due to it being about the actual content in the shows, where as this is more about the fandom.

So yeah, if you have any other fandom myths about Madoka, post 'em here i guess....




Last edited by CherryChan on Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Myths About Madoka Magica   Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:56 pm

Can I just say, I love you for posting this thread? PMMM is actually one of my favorite magical girl shows, and there aren't that many positive threads about it here... Which I get, because it's not for everyone, but I am happy to see someone else who also likes it. I agree with all of your points. I don't really have any other myths to post, I just wanted to say that.
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PostSubject: Re: Myths About Madoka Magica   Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:03 pm

It's a magical girl show for sure. It's a shame I didnt like it. I found it bland and boring. The characters weren't intersting enough for me.

Despite my feelings I don't get the hate toward the show. It's well made. If anything I like the artwork and the character design.



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PostSubject: Re: Myths About Madoka Magica   Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:17 pm

Actually, reading your post again, I do have something I want to say, to explain why I like it...

I love light, fluffy, happy shows. They're adorable!

But... I do have pretty severe depression in real life, and unfortunately, light, fluffy, happy shows don't always cheer me up.

In fact, sometimes, they do the opposite. They make me feel worse, because my life isn't as happy as the characters in the shows.

But you know? Seeing something darker, something that has negative emotions in it... Actually does help a little. Call me sadistic if you want, but watching someone going through a bad situation is relatable, and helps me deal with my own negative emotions.

So, yeah. I don't really like all the hate the show gets for being "too dark"... Because darkness isn't always a bad thing for everyone.
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PostSubject: Re: Myths About Madoka Magica   Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:24 pm

@CherryChan wrote:
Since it is a deconstruction, it doesn't deserve to be called a Magical Girl show

The whole "Madoka is a deconstruction" thing is a myth in itself. I've seen a fair few interviews and never saw mention of the show's intention as a deconstruction. It was just supposed to be a dark story using an established genre, and they tossed between mech and magical girl.

But aside from that I fail to see how this would make it not be considered a Mg show in that case. Heck, shows that don't even have actual magic (like Esper Mami) and shows where the powers come from science (like Tokyo Mew Mew) are unquestionably considered MG shows.

Even parody shows are still considered to be part of the genre, and Madoka is often considered a dark parody.

"Madoka punishes girls for having feelings uwu"
There's a long-standing debate about some interviews with Urobuchi where he compared the girls to a real life terrorist group and said that the girls were being punished for their hubris.

The terrorist group comparison is a much more harmless statement imo, since he was basically saying "what one person considers good intentions may be harmful to another." But the hubris part implies that the girls deserved to suffer for being self-righteous and overly proud. While characters like Sayaka kinda do bring their own downfall upon themselves in some ways, none of it is ever "deserved."

At the end of the day, it's just Urobuchi being who he is, writing stories about characters suffering and dying, regardless of gender. People just get a lot more sensitive when any kind of minority is involved.

"Madoka is a whiny useless crybaby"
Characters like Shinji Ikari always get hated on for being like this. It just seems to come hand in hand with dark shows like this. In a more traditional version of their respective genres, the protagonists are upbeat and accomplish anything through determination and heart. So naturally these darker versions would have the protagonists be much more subdued in personality, very timid and fearful, and put in a situation where they're largely powerless to do anything.

As a result their personalities can be viewed as more subtle and less interesting, so we're less invested when we see what these characters have to go through, especially when the show lies to us about what it really is. Anyone watching the show when it was airing, seeing the promos and the OP, would be saying "When is she gonna become meguca?" While only people who have seen the show and know everything the system entails would criticize that questioning.

And finally, a segment from an interview talking about the show's target demographic.

Q: Does that mean that you two didn't think much on what kind of target audience you want to base on as a genre of 'mahou shoujo'?

Urobuchi: Well, since it is late-night animation, we never thought of the target audience. If it was more about selling toys and stuffs, we already had the final meeting on weapon which will be first to be worked on. In case of props design, it was being planned right until the deadline, which is simply not acceptable if it was project that focuses on merchandise.

Aoki: Indeed. Rather than targeting something, I was more aware of not changing it a lot from the start. If I try to make design fit with Urobuchi's script, the key point of this entire project might have been ruined. What we first asked was that it will be much enjoyable to work individually with individuality, so I worked thinking 'let's do it Aoki-like.'

Urobuchi: Shinbo also said that we shouldn't think a lot of target, but just make something fun. How unrestricted it is!...(laugh)
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PostSubject: Re: Myths About Madoka Magica   Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:25 pm

I don't mind darker tones in shows. I like conflict for charcters. It's just I just found everyone so boring in Madoka. I didn't feel bad for anyone. I slightly felt bad for Homura (sorry for spelling).



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PostSubject: Re: Myths About Madoka Magica   Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:57 pm

@RLinksoul wrote:
@CherryChan wrote:
Since it is a deconstruction, it doesn't deserve to be called a Magical Girl show

The whole "Madoka is a deconstruction" thing is a myth in itself. I've seen a fair few interviews and never saw mention of the show's intention as a deconstruction. It was just supposed to be a dark story using an established genre, and they tossed between mech and magical girl.

But aside from that I fail to see how this would make it not be considered a Mg show in that case. Heck, shows that don't even have actual magic (like Esper Mami) and shows where the powers come from science (like Tokyo Mew Mew) are unquestionably considered MG shows.

Even parody shows are still considered to be part of the genre, and Madoka is often considered a dark parody.
^ This. I mean, there are magical animals (TMM), magician Magical Girls (Saint Tail) and magical popstars (Lolirock). Hey, even Star vs The Forces of Evil is a parody of the magical girl genre, and it still gets accepted as one. It is pretty odd that some people will just say "NUP, TOO DARK. DAT AIN'T MAGICAL GIRL ENOUGH" to certain shows like Madoka. By that logic, Sailor Moon isn't a magical girl because people die in excruciating ways (manga).


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PostSubject: Re: Myths About Madoka Magica   Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:12 am

For me it's not that it's dark. It's that it feels like it's deliberately trying to tear down the conventions of the genre.

I guess that's why people think it's a deconstruction, because it specifically takes the concepts of the genre and twists them into the most horrific thing possible, all while pulling a nasty bait-and-switch attempt. It's not the same as simply being a magical girl show with dark elements.

It's specifically targeting concepts that are normally cute/friendly or heroic and says "This naive and foolish, the world is cruel blah blah blah." and making them as bleak and cynical as possible. 

The power of love/friendship will make you careless and get you killed, helping others will lead to your own misery, your wishes will backfire and lead to suffering, if you try to become a better person, you'll die. So on and so on.

While I won't deny it's place in the genre, it feels like it's trying so hard to be anti-magical girl that it DOES seem like a dark parody, or a magical girl show for people who usually hate them and think they're nothing but mindless fluff.

And as someone who watched the show when it was airing, I had to let these negative emotions fester in my mind without knowing that they were going to try to turn things around in the finale... which I still didn't find all that hopeful or idealistic, but whatever. They tried.
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PostSubject: Re: Myths About Madoka Magica   Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:18 am

@CherryChan wrote:
I know i'm probably paving the way for a huge discussion but you know what? I don't care.

Madoka was made for a male audience so therefore it's bad!!!!

Ok, neither Aniplex or anyone working at SHAFT/Magica Quartet has said this. Stop passing around these dumb fandom rumors.

Even if it was made for a male audience, so what? Not all male MG fans are gross otaku's who enjoy watching little girl torture porn. In fact, hardly any of them are. It is very tiring to see male magical girl fans stereotyped as either gay or "YOU FAP TO MOE" people.

PMMM brought perverts into the MG fandom


This one makes me laugh. Have they ever see Cutey Honey? Nevermind that the Sailor Senshi all wear incredibly short skirts. There have always been perverts among us, it's nothing new.

I agree with many of your points, but I want to talk about this one in particular. I remember one time a few years back I was hugely into Madoka (As I still am today) and I'd just started getting into Precure and a few other magical girl shows. I said in a forum post that Madoka had a much bigger impact on me than all the other magical girl anime I'd seen, though I also acknowledged that comparing them wasn't exactly fair. A forum user (Whose identity won't disclose) said 'Well that's only natural because you're a guy'. Honestly I was a bit creeped out that she'd taken note of my gender and brought it up completely at random like that (She was quick to point out that I was a guy when a forum user mistook me for a girl once) but I digress.

Boy oh boy did that annoy me. I mean, what is it about Madoka that would specifically appeal to that kind of audience? The fact that Madoka's fanbase has absolutely no shortage of people from all genders and ages is a testament to its universal appeal. And given Sailor Moon's mainstream success, it's almost certainly attracted more perverts than Madoka. 

Now I should mention that this person liked Madoka, but whenever I heard her talk about the series (Even in praise) I found her views... a bit questionable. And the fact I actually ended up enjoying Cardcaptor Sakura (A very distinctly shojo series) more than PMMM when I got around to seeing proves her assumption that it was all a simple matter of gender roles completely false.

If you want to see a distinctly male centric magical girl series then look no further than Prisma Illya. I'm not saying you're a pervert just for liking the show or you can't enjoy it if you're not a straight guy, but the fanbase for that (Which has basically no crossover with the magical girl fandom) is filled with perverted straight males. And given some of the show's content it's obvious they made it with those people in mind. I mean, there are a good number of scenes which are just pure unadulterated fap material.


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